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The Face-Off
By admin | May 11, 2007
Ray Comfort and Kirk Cameron (of The Way of the Master fame) recently challenged some atheists to a debate on ABC. Comfort claimed he could prove the existence of God, completely scientifically, without reference to the Bible.
If you watched it what do you think?
Was he successful?
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May 11th, 2007 at 5:47 pm
Heck no he wasn’t successful!! He was quoting Scriptures and the Ten Commandments 5 minutes into his first monologue. When I heard about this debate earlier in the week, I quietly hoped that this wouldn’t be his same old, tired approach where he tries to convince everyone that they are liars, theives, and adulterers. After watching it, it seems like he just doesn’t get it. Was this a publicity stunt or what? It seems like he promised not to appeal to faith and the Bible just to get everyone (athiests) to listen, then proceeded to preach his same “gospel” message that he always does. Every time I hear Ray and Kirk, my regard for them drops a little further. Oddly enough, the athiest guy from the other side of the debate was just as shallow and lame.
You would have thought that ABC News would have brought in more seasoned and competent debaters on both sides for a program like this. Perhaps they were more interested in the sensationalist, popular appeal of these guys rather that a thoughtful debate.
May 12th, 2007 at 8:54 pm
He obviously used the Bible, but I think they did a fine job. I think if anything this debate, weather by the best or worst of debaters has generated much publicity! On the abc web link alone there has been over 9,000 posts! If anything this is causing people to think about God, what happens after we die, and ‘am I really good enough to get into heaven’. Who knows how many people have found these arguments to be of use, but at least in may encourage more discussion. Weather or not you agree with them ’street witnessing’ or not, I see nothing wrong with the Good and True news that they are sharing. I don’t see Ray or Kurt as being “shallow or lame”, I have used their technique of witnessing with many with my friends and students and I have seen it produce much fruit, repentant hearts, and great conversations. So yes I thought it was productive.
May 14th, 2007 at 3:17 pm
I don’t doubt that this debate has produced much conversation and publicity. And I don’t question the fact that God can and does use Ray and Kirk and their methods for His good in some people’s lives. But I don’t buy the old justification that, “If one person gets saved from this debate, then it is worth it.” Or even if 100 people get “saved”. For one thing, I question whether a discussion of salvation that excludes the concept of God loving us or us loving Him in return can even produce true salvation. It may well be giving people false confidence based on a deficient view of what God requires of us.
But secondly, what if for every one that was helped by this debate, 100 others were needlessly hardened or turned off. This is what I fear. Anytime a Christian promises one thing and purposely delivers something else entirely, he does damage to the integrity of Christians as a whole. Ray and Kirk did a disservice with this debate (to unbelievers and their fellow Christians) by reinforcing the stereotype of Christians who will trick you if they have to in order to make you listen to their appeal. It puts us on the level of a door-to-door salesman that will do or say anything (even if it is deceptive) to get inside your door. Combine this with Ray’s repeated statement that all it takes to agree with him is “eyes that see and a brain that works” and you have an approach that belittles and disrespects the hearer rather than informs and pursuades.
May 14th, 2007 at 3:56 pm
Did you watch the entire event? Your statement, “For one thing, I question whether a discussion of salvation that excludes the concept of God loving us or us loving Him in return can even produce true salvation.” During the question and answer section love was present in not simply their answers, but the patience and care in which they delivered them, including the ‘why is there cancer’ question echoed the love of the Savior! I understand your concern about people seeing Christians as “door-to-door” salesmen, but are Christians not in a way sold-out Salesmen for Christ? Sold-out to the point that they pursue a relationship with Him because He called them too be transformed to resemble Him the product. That their lifestyles would change to reflect Him (the product), that their speech would reflect Him, that they would spend time with those that need the product. Look at our church culture, isn’t it funny that much more money is spent on marketing/advertisement than on new books for their church library? I saw Kurt and Ray present the Gospel in love and show that it is indeed logical to do so. I’m sure Paul had many more people harden their hearts to his pointing people to the Cross than people joyfully receive it, does that mean he was wrong?
I understand where you are coming from and obviously they did not present scientific empirical evidence, but they did present logical reasons for a God-the God of the Bible.
May 15th, 2007 at 1:18 pm
Brent,
I am glad if God’s love for sinners was conveyed later on in the discussion. I only watched Ray’s initial presentation and the response to it. My comment, however, was based in part on previous talks I’ve heard from Ray and Kirk. I don’t doubt that both of them love God and understand the importance of His love for us, but I don’t understand why they leave it out of their presentation of the Gospel.
You are right that we, as Christians, are all salesmen. Passionate about what or who we represent, we seek to convince others of their need for the same thing that has impacted our life. There should, however, be something distinctly different about our approach. My opinion is that we should never resort to the things I described in my previous post.
You are right also that Paul, the apostle, saw many people hardened to the Gospel; namely because the offensive concept of a crucified Messiah. My concern is when we turn people off “needlessly.” Not because of our message, but because we are obnoxious, disrespectful, or arrogant in our manner.